38 replies to this topic

[paula]

How about a temple where we vote for the BBA'S .So many points per vote and leave the voting as it is now voting for the team we want or refreshing it if we see a team we don't wish to vote for .

[CaptC]

That is essentially a temple for missions that reward ballots, I think. I would not mind such a temple.

[Analis]

How about a temple where we vote for the BBA'S .

 

My Advice is to not bother trying

because the whole award system is rigged to be bought out by the studio with the most diamonds.

Oh maybe thats a little harsh - its "mostly" rigged to do that with the occasional nice cover slipping through by accident!

[CaptC]

Movie ballots are worth farming in and of themselves. They can award skill points. Given that a skill point is worth 500K to me, and i think you get a skill point every 25 ballots or so, I consider a movie ballot to be worth about 20K notes.

 

The other rewards from movie ballots are nominal, but those additional diamonds and items and notes and XP are not costing me anything, either.

[CaptC]

I moved this to it's own topic.

[jancan]

i'v got to go with analis on this one you can vote for your film all day if you want to spend diamonds like crazy , i'll use my diamond's for better things . love making my own covers i do spend them for that just fun to do .

[Amberson]

Diamonds would be irrelevant in this kind of Temple. As Cap said, it would essentially be a mission Temple, but instead of charisma missions or fighting missions, the players would be required to do ballot missions. There's no direct way in which diamonds can significantly increase their incidence since they appear randomly. It's possible to pay for a refresh of missions in a particular area or even across the whole map, but that’s pretty pointless. Especially since missions can be refreshed without the use of diamonds.

As far as influencing of the actual results goes, I would say that diamonds play second fiddle to studio voting. If the results are close, a few bought votes might help you to move to a better position or even to win, but that still requires your cover to be good and liked enough to be in the running for the top spots even without the diamonds. However, I don't think that buying more than a few votes is really viable and/or makes any sense. By contrast, a group of highly active people working towards a common goal of pushing their covers to the top spots can actually make and very often does make a big difference. Particularly during the last one or two days of voting, when the voting options are reduced to the Top 100 and Top 50 remaining covers.

Edited by Amberson, 11 March 2018 - 16:47 PM.

[jasmine45]

For this temple, can we make this separate from the BBAs? Let it have it's own special ballots. Let the temple leader board show which studio cast the most votes and only reveal which films won at the end. Also offer special prizes for the winning films beyond the normal temple rewards.

[MelisaA]

Great idea, much much better than conventions

[Shannon2]

How about taking the votes idea a step forward and making it a point for every vote for a movie from your studio.  That way you could form voting alliances for the temple and add an element of cross studio gameplay that doesn't exist right now. 

Would even probably work as a diamond sink for BBE.  Lots of refreshes and (with enough warning when the temple would be) lots of people spending on titles that reflect your studio so your allies in other studios can easily find those titles.

 

Just brainstorming off the ideas above.

Edited by Shannon2, 09 July 2018 - 18:13 PM.

[mel25]

Now here is a topic, that should help wake up the dev  it is about time some refreshing ideas came to light  and I support everyones thoughts on this 

[Amberson]

How about taking the votes idea a step forward and making it a point for every vote for a movie from your studio.  That way you could form voting alliances for the temple and add an element of cross studio gameplay that doesn't exist right now. 
Would even probably work as a diamond sink for BBE.  Lots of refreshes and (with enough warning when the temple would be) lots of people spending on titles that reflect your studio so your allies in other studios can easily find those titles.
 
Just brainstorming off the ideas above.

Sorry, don’t like this idea one bit. As if studio voting din't already play large enough role in shaping the final results, you want to actually promote it even more? Highlighting studios in titles would only make it worse, since it takes another fun and creative element out of the equation in favor of blatant strategizing and pandering for votes. I’m all in for studio competition in this game, in fact I would like to see more of it instead of studios disintegrating and strong players constantly leaving the game (R.I.P. The Dirty Thirty), but not every element of the game should be about studio competition. The game needs to also promote creativity, fun and individual achievements/competition not based on diamonds or studio affiliation.

I guess if devs wanted to really suck all the fun of the awards and get players to spend as many diamonds as possible, they could take the idea even further and straight away do a Temple that would reward refreshes on voting options. And just like that, doing conventions would finally not be the least favorite Temple task.

PS: Even though I’m not in favor of this particular title, please don’t let that discourage you from commenting and suggesting other ideas. Both is always welcome, especially coming from new users.

[Shannon2]

Sorry, don’t like this idea one bit. As if studio voting din't already play large enough role in shaping the final results, you want to actually promote it even more? Highlighting studios in titles would only make it worse, since it takes another fun and creative element out of the equation in favor of blatant strategizing and pandering for votes. I’m all in for studio competition in this game, in fact I would like to see more of it instead of studios disintegrating and strong players constantly leaving the game (R.I.P. The Dirty Thirty), but not every element of the game should be about studio competition. The game needs to also promote creativity, fun and individual achievements/competition not based on diamonds or studio affiliation.

I guess if devs wanted to really suck all the fun of the awards and get players to spend as many diamonds as possible, they could take the idea even further and straight away do a Temple that would reward refreshes on voting options. And just like that, doing conventions would finally not be the least favorite Temple task.

PS: Even though I’m not in favor of this particular title, please don’t let that discourage you from commenting and suggesting other ideas. Both is always welcome, especially coming from new users.

 

I think you are looking at this the wrong way.  Suggesting new Temples that Diamonds play a small or nonexistant role in is not going to change the number of convention temples you see.  There are already boatloads of Temples that we rarely see because they are in the pile of these are non-profitable Temples that have to be subsidized by running more convention temples.

 

What you really need to do is at least introduce temples that dont need to be subsidized by running convention temples.  Perhaps even alternative temples that can be run instead of convention temples.  Temples that make money for the game, but don't require an additional time dedication of up to 6 hours a day (3 2 hour temples in a 24 hour timespan, yes we just had those) from it's players.

 

I don't think that losing the back half and the front half of a BBA competition to a temple like this every dozen weeks or so would affect the sanctity and creativity of the BBA awards.  Would adding "From Bukakke Cinema"  to the end of your title really suck the fun out of the competition for you?

[Amberson]

I think you're moving the conversation in a different direction than what my comment was about. Finding ways how to change the number of convention Temples wasn’t something that I was concerned about at all. I’m also not convinced that convention Temples are subsidizing other Temples. They create revenue in general, but there are other ways to do that. And the devs are in fact exploiting those ways by introducing things like outfits, polyamory, surprise boxes, the option to buy party tickets, additional storage tabs etc. Lots of such features have been implemented into the game lately. And it’s supposedly still not enough to at least not do 2 convention Temples in 3 weeks? So we need other revenue-generating Temples so that there would be less of the convention ones that people are fed up with? Would there be less of them, really? I’m not sure I agree with that, but more importantly, this is a different topic for a different conversation than the one I wanted to comment on.

My only point was a simple one - I wouldn’t like a Temple that’s build upon the need to alter the core of some aspect of the game. Studio voting and occasional diamond spending already play a very big part in the BBAs. I see it as a problem, others don’t. However, making it all about studio voting is taking it to a whole new level. It might be just an occasional thing, but I still don’t like the effect it would have during that particular week, nor the message it sends in general (it's not an individual competition about quality and creativity, it’s a studio competition).

And yes, having a lousy title like "From Bukakke Cinema" instead of something more playful, inspiring and/or humorous takes the fun out of it. If you just add it to the end, apart from it not fitting there, the title becomes too long which would make the covers look unappealing. There are ways how to make even a studio-referencing title entertaining, but the majority of people would settle for the cheapest and most obvious variant. Plus why constraint yourself if you might have a better idea?

Edited by Amberson, 10 July 2018 - 13:10 PM.

[Analis]

And yes, having a lousy title like "From Bukakke Cinema" instead of something more playful, inspiring and/or humorous takes the fun out of it. If you just add it to the end, apart from it not fitting there, the title becomes too long which would make the covers look unappealing. There are ways how to make even a studio-referencing title entertaining, but the majority of people would settle for the cheapest and most obvious variant. Plus why constraint yourself if you might have a better idea?

 

I noticed some studio's titles are rhyming with -topper this week for instance.

 

 

Doing ballots-alone for a temple challenge is interesting.

Doing studio-ballots-alone also has its perks though, Amberson.

For one: the studio those purple people belong to might be challenged more.

You're an asking party there, and so are they.

[Amberson]

I’m not convinced the top studio (regardless of server) would be challenged more. Not completely ruling it off, but if there was the will to band together in order to challenge the behemoth at the top, it could have akready happened. On UK2 we actually saw this type of cooperation in the form of The Pirate Alliance. Both of the studios are quite successful in comparison with the rest of the pack, but they’re still not really a challenge for you. Even more so, the pact doesn’t translate into BBA results at all like it does into the studio glory rankings. A big factor in their glory rankings successes has to do with a gradually weakening competition for the top, though. The Pirate Alliance was able to climb so high because a lot of the studios that previously held those positions have been disbanded over time with lots of their players quitting the game, while others migrated to join The Pirate Alliance.

The new Temple suggestion gives a little extra incentive for cooperation, but I’m quite skeptical about its actual impact on creating a more challenging and competitive environment. Besides, are BBAs really the right front for this? Speaking for myself here, do I want to form alliances and participate in studio voting, which I’m not a fan of to begin with, just so that I might have a bigger chance to win... or so that players from the top studio wouldn’t win so often? This isn’t the type of competition I’m campaigning for.

I'll tell you what, though... If you want to be challenged more, then here’s another suggestion apart from the dozen or so that I have already provided in the past. How about making the preliminary results hidden throughout the week? In their place, we would be able to see the full results of the previous week, complete with votes received and everything. Everyone could still engage in studio voting like now, but we wouldn’t know who’s leading. That would mean that studious wouldn’t be able to strategically vote for their most popular entry and (this holds true even for any individual player) against their biggest competition - particularly during the last few days/hours. The final result would thus reflect quality and general popularity of particular covers more than it does now. And as a bonus, everyone would finally have transparent access to the final rankings without the need for much work on the devs end.

Edited by Amberson, 10 July 2018 - 15:04 PM.

[CaptC]

I actually like that, Amberson. Show the results of the previous BBA until Wednesday reset so the change over also happens with the new temple. Thursday through Sunday, do what we are doing now.

 

Kills two birds with one stone, I think! This lets us see the final results for a few days, and hides the early tallies to reduce the strategic balloting. The hope would be that Monday through Wednesday voting focuses more on voting FOR things (friends, good covers) rather than voting AGAINST opponent covers in competition for the top spot.

[Analis]

How about making the preliminary results hidden throughout the week?
Everyone could still engage in studio voting like now, but we wouldn’t know who’s leading.

(...) everyone would finally have transparent access to the final rankings without the need for much work on the devs end.

 

The hope would be that (…) voting focuses more on voting FOR things (friends, good covers)

rather than voting AGAINST opponent covers in competition for the top spot.

 

I think most would be all for a transparent afterwards-ranking.

It's already been suggested a few times before.

Also no-one in the right mind should actually like anti-voting.

So yeah, if that could be gotten rid off... cool.

 

But hiding the results wouldn't actually kill the efficiency studio voting can have.

On the contrary, it would make it harder to know for a member of a non-collaborational-studio if he/she would have to step it up, doing more ballots trying to vote for him/herself because he/she would actually have a chance to end high... So what would you get? One studio getting in the top because it's their standard MO to vote like this anyway, plus perhaps a handful of blindly-diamond-dumping players who try to get as high as possible, with little or no chance at all for "fluke" cover makers (new players, really really good titles or good looking peeps etc.) to get there. I don't think anonimity is a way around diamond-dumping and studio-voting. Rather a way to further encourage and enhance both.

 

This is leaning more to the "Fix BBA" than the "New Temple Ideas" thread by the way.

[Amberson]

I actually like that, Amberson. Show the results of the previous BBA until Wednesday reset so the change over also happens with the new temple. Thursday through Sunday, do what we are doing now.
 
Kills two birds with one stone, I think! This lets us see the final results for a few days, and hides the early tallies to reduce the strategic balloting. The hope would be that Monday through Wednesday voting focuses more on voting FOR things (friends, good covers) rather than voting AGAINST opponent covers in competition for the top spot.

I’m glad that you finally like one of my proposals. However, I feel like the studio voting (or downvoting) is most effective in the later stages of the competition, particularly during Saturday and Sunday when you’re left with the Top 75-50 covers. So I’m not sure if the compromise you proposed would really cause much of a change, apart from providing welcomed transparency regarding previous results.

The early stages of voting have a problem of their own about which I talked extensively in the past. The problem is the premature elimination of nice covers. You won’t fix that by hiding the preliminary results, though. Instead, prolonging the voting period before the first cut or even the second cut would constitute the proper solution. I think studio voting is a contributing factor to nice covers occasionally flopping, but hiding the results won’t change anything about it. Studio voting would still be a thing and people would still vote for one of their own every time they saw the notifier. At this early stage, it's not as much about upvoting your darkest horse and downvoting its biggest competition as it is about getting the needed vote(s) to not flop. And every vote counts, since there’s a limited time period to get it.

The real favorites of the week are often not even clear by Wednesday, since the competition is still too wide by that point and receiving a few more votes than others has a lot to do with luck. Mine or someone else's covers have often risen to Top 10 or even the first place only during Thursday or Friday. Then they stayed there either until Saturday or Sunday at which point the downvoting/upvoting starts to play a huge role and people from the most active and motivated studio usually take over. This is also the best time to spend diamonds, if you have enough of them and are willing to waste them this way. Because you have a much bigger chance to get to vote for your own or a studio-affiliated cover when the competition is at it’s narrowest.

[Amberson]

But hiding the results wouldn't actually kill the efficiency studio voting can have.
On the contrary, it would make it harder to know for a member of a non-collaborational-studio if he/she would have to step it up, doing more ballots trying to vote for him/herself because he/she would actually have a chance to end high... So what would you get? One studio getting in the top because it's their standard MO to vote like this anyway, plus perhaps a handful of blindly-diamond-dumping players who try to get as high as possible, with little or no chance at all for "fluke" cover makers (new players, really really good titles or good looking peeps etc.) to get there. I don't think anonimity is a way around diamond-dumping and studio-voting. Rather a way to further encourage and enhance both

Well, an individual with limited or no studio support and/or diamonds can step it up all they want, but they don’t have a chance of going against 30 strong stepping up their own efforts too. There’s a chance if their cover really resonates with people and at the same time either the single dominating studio or even other strong studios are maybe not that motivated during that particular week. Maybe not all their players have as much time, some might have even gotten inactive and proper replacements weren’t found yet... In short, the top dogs are not playing their best game and putting their all in. I think CaitlinCumgusher, Quinga, myself and some other folks were able to snatch a few wins this way earlier during this year or in the more distant past. But for example, recently I had a popular cover that even after a fall from 1st to outside Top 10 during Sunday still managed to climb to 2nd in the end. Not first, though. That seemed impossible, even if I tried to do as many voting missions as I could and use extra energy gained from completed tasks/collections to maybe be able to help myself a little. Even some studio mates, who liked the cover, said they voted for me... But even though I frankly think I had the better cover at hand (with a theme, custom title, changed hairstyle to reflect it and all) and it did receive a lot of votes overall (way more then my 2 winning covers), it still lost. Next time, I might not even bother trying to do those voting missions, because it didn’t make a difference anyway...

So if you ask what I think people could get from the proposed changes, I answer that in my opinion a bigger chance of occasionally winning in these types of David vs. Goliath finishes. I doesn’t change anything wether an individual steps up their effort or not, but if 30 people don’t know on which covers it is best to put their votes (or for which covers to not vote), it can make a difference. You can say that you vote for all of your members anyway, however when there’s 50 covers left in the running and let’s say 10-22 of them are from your studio, they often get paired together. In those situations, a lot of crucial votes could be "lost" to covers that aren’t actually competing for the 1st place... or 2nd/3rd/Top 10... simply because people would actually vote for something that they like more.

Maybe I’m wrong and your right. I still think it’s worth the try due to the potential of it being a better alternative to the current status quo...

Edited by Amberson, 11 July 2018 - 09:59 AM.