12 replies to this topic

[ivorbigun]

was watching a studio fight and noticed some lower level players are stronger than the higher level players. i think the studio boss should be able to decide what order the team fight. instead of the level 300 with poor stats finishing the fight, we could have the 280 with higher stats finishing the fight

[TaraBing]

Hi Ivor,  it's a good idea.  

 

was watching a studio fight and noticed some lower level players are stronger than the higher level players. i think the studio boss should be able to decide what order the team fight. instead of the level 300 with poor stats finishing the fight, we could have the 280 with higher stats finishing the fight

 

I could see this being done as a simple switch in the studio settings.  Maybe anyone at Producer Level or higher can make the switch.

 

LAST TO FIGHT:

[ X ]  Highest Level

[   ]  Strongest Stats

 

 

Where you would prefer to see it switched.

 

 

-TB

[CaptC]

I would second Tara's idea. Keep it simple. I know how obsessive I am, and I do not relish the idea of optimizing a 30 person lineup.  LOL

 

I would recommend that 'strongest stats' calculate the actual effective stats, at the instant of the fight, taking trophy penalty and ring percentage into account.

[Analis]

I'd disagree with this.

This would kind of kill the fun of players who are stronger than others around or over their level. I've been one of those for a very long time and I know quite a few who are now. The fact that such players can beat up 3 to 10 of their opponents in a studio battle now is a serious boost of their ego/pride. Read: an incentive to do even better. Taking that away by creating the possibility of battles that only revolve around the fight between the absolute strongest in both studios... that would make for dull and uninspiring studio fights.

 

PS (Edit): this also makes your weakest members pure cannon fodder.

That's just brutal, unnecessary and very team-unfriendly.

Edited by Analis, 29 October 2017 - 18:11 PM.

[CaptC]

I am a skills based player myself. I take no great pride in beating people of similar levels to me, because level is irrelevant in a duel. Levels are just for bragging, it's skills that kill. I take pride in beating people with similar or better *skills*, because then it is refinement choice and skills profile that matters.

 

I don't see lower level players competing with similar SKILLED people as turning them into cannon fodder. In fact, exactly the opposite.

 

And in studio fights, trophy load and ring discipline are huge factors, hence my desire for sorting by adjusted skills instead of raw skills.

[Analis]

- I am a skills based player

- level is irrelevant in a duel

- I take pride in beating people with similar or better *skills*

- I don't see lower level players competing with similar SKILLED people

   as turning them into cannon fodder. In fact, exactly the opposite.

 

+ trophy load and ring discipline are huge factors,

hence my desire for sorting by adjusted skills instead of raw skills.

 

The idea was to make people fight in studio fights in an order based on stats rather than lvl.

Not just skills or skill points - but I'm assuming you did mean total and adjusted stats?

 

Total stats do revolve in a large part around level, whether you like it or not.

The best available missiles only ever do a damage of between 6.5 and 7.5 per level.

The best available items only ever hold stat points worth between 5.5 and 5.6 per level.

The best available gadgets only ever yield extra damage between 4.8 and 5.0 per level.

This is how the game keeps itself from imploding: stats ARE in a large part tied to level.

Only a few dedicated players ever manage to go around these useful "caps".

 

Now if you put similarly skilled people, regardless of lvl against one another...

The higher leveled ones will still have stronger missiles and higher gadget damages.

Are you prepared to call that a fair fight?

 

Level is only irrelevant in a fight when you surpass the caps, Capt.

And most in this game do NOT surpass them like we do. But even when u do...

My char for instance is lvl 361 and could fight a certain lvl 457 on UK1 with similar stats.

I'd still lose that fight though, based on missile and gadget damage.

I'd look amazing, true, thank you, but I'd still lose.

 

 

So imagine how frustrating this would get in an actual studio fight.

People who are "stronger" than their level restricts them to be, would get pummeled on basis of level.

Again and again and again. At least that's how I'd see it evolve.

 

 

PS: sorry for the edits.

Stupid enter-button touched my pinkie prematurely and against my will.

Edited by Analis, 30 October 2017 - 21:26 PM.

[CaptC]

Analis, I would take your comments as evidence that missile damage should be counted as part of the skills calculation. Nice addition, actually... albeit not one I think you intended to make 

 

And given that SOMEBODY is going to face a mismatch, no matter how a fight is sorted (unless the two studios are in lockstep for player strength)  *shrug*  ...Fairness is simply not a concept that applies. If one of the options is, "do it like we do it right now", I fail to see the harm of letting a studio boss try a different sort. Simple as that.

 

And as you say, the majority of the time the sort will not differ wildly, level and skill values do roughly correspond.  It will mostly differ due to skill boosters. A level 400 who is a free player (I have one in my NU1 studio) and a level 400 who has a skill booster, will have very different skill totals. Why shouldn't I be able to get the stronger to anchor the studio?

[ivorbigun]

when u get some players who just want to level up and dont care about their skills it would be helpful to move them forward a few places in the fight. would not make a difference to the lower ranked players cos they would still be at the front of the line like they are now

[CaptC]

I am not a fan of mixed player types. If everyone is experience based, the sort will go pretty much by strength. Similarly, if everyone is skills based, level sort will also be pretty close.

 

But if some of your players are skills based, and some are experienced based, the experienced based players tend to be liabilities in a studio fight. In a level sort, the experience based player often faces a skills based opponent of equal or better level. That means the experience based player is usually murdered, without inflicting proportionate damage.

 

If you ask me, one of a studio bosses jobs is to make sure everyone is using the same general build strategy.

[Amberson]

What ivorbigun seems to be implying is that having people with the strongest stats fighting last is a better strategy that would allow studios to perform better in the fights than if the fighting order is based on achieved level of the players.

I think the opposite is equally effective, if not more. I’d be actually willing to argue that it can be more effective. If your strongest players take out enough opposite players because of their sheer strength and powerful set of refinements, then the remaining players can face their mightiest player and throw cakes at him. If those remaining players on your side fought the same players that were taken out by your mightiest, they might not fare as good because they wouldn’t have the same power advantage over them. In the end the cakes would have been wasted this way and it would be just the mightiest players on both sides fighting each other, with the winner being decided based upon which one of them is stronger.

I’m describing this from my own experience. For a long time I’ve been the last player on our side, since I have the highest level character (lvl 241 at the moment). However, for a large portion of that time, my character wasn’t actually the strongest on the rooster, nor was the one before me until recently. The strongest were the two characters before us. They both have the best boosters, refinements and up to date wardrobe, since there are diamonds involved that can afford you all of that. I’m not a diamond spender, so I have to get those same refinements over time and work with weaker boosters. I also progress more slowly because of this, even if I put in the same or even bigger effort. This means that it’s only a matter of time till I’m not the highest level player of the studio anymore. I have only a 9 level lead now, even though I used be 20+ levels ahead a couple of months ago. But I think that this fighting order has worked in our favor. It will be interesting to see if and how things change after the two strongest characters are the ones to fight last.

PS: I’m not much of a fan of the boss or producers being able to set their preferred fighting orders. It would indeed allow more individual strategizing, but it would also complicate things too much for the people that would try to figure out the best setting. I’m the one who mostly selects and schedules the fights in my studio and I really don’t want to puzzle my head over these things. Especially since different opponents might demand different arrangements.

Edited by Amberson, 01 November 2017 - 22:59 PM.

[ivorbigun]

nobody said u have to pick the order. just have the option of doing it

[Amberson]

But if the option is there, you’re naturally tempted to use is to get the best possible performance out of your team. I know I would be. It might even become a necessity if others use it against you. So my personal feeling on the matter is that I prefer to not complicate things. There are things (already suggested in different threads) that could be incorporated into the game and while less time consuming than determining optimal fighting orders, they would bring lots of benefit to the players and increase the overall gaming experience. But I’m speaking only for myself here. You’re free to have your own opinion that the developers can take into consideration and even apply to the game, if they wish so.

[ivorbigun]

each to their own and i will have my own opinion! i would change the order of my top 2 fighters if the option was there. the rest would stay as they are