Jump to content


Photo

film trophies


  • Please log in to reply
61 replies to this topic

#1 biged67

biged67

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 17 posts
  • World:UK2
  • Character:Aus
  • Studio:Bros and Hoes
Reputation: 6

Posted 04 September 2017 - 01:15 AM

I play on the US version my studio mates were talking today why should we even try to keep them? They are a 20 percent penalty in studio fights, and always 3 studios that seem to always be on top of the BBA anyways so my question is whats the point of having them



#2 Yibbies

Yibbies

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 120 posts
  • LocationOhio
  • World:UK2
  • Character:Yibbies
  • Studio:Bros & Hoes
Reputation: 144

Posted 04 September 2017 - 03:46 AM

I play on UK2 server, and we've had one film trophy for over a month now.. They are great to have since they give you extra films per day (which translates to more skill points and notes) and a better voting percentage for the BBA at the end of the week... Upon completing 28 films for a week, my films are going to show up 280% of the time to vote.. Since we've had this trophy, my film has won twice so far in less than a month



#3 Amberson

Amberson

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 258 posts
  • World:UK2
Reputation: 130

Posted 04 September 2017 - 11:43 AM

I just had a conversation about this topic with another user the other day and since this thread is already here I might as well go public with it...

What Yibbies said above perfectly illustrates the issue. I think that the film trophies have unfortunately destroyed competition in the BBAs. My first post in this forum meant to encourage people that with a bit of luck anybody can win the BBAs. I wrote it one day after my own victory. But I don't believe in it anymore...

If you look at the rankings now, you see the same names at the top every week and the winners also keep repeating which didn't happen that often in the past. There are usually more than ten covers from one studio in the Top 20 and the rest is from two or three other studios, depending on who had the trophies the week before. You don't really see someone outside of this circle there anymore.

Please don't take it the wrong way, I'm not saying that most of the covers are not nice, but other people make nice covers too and now they can't compete with the strong few. This is btw exactly what I was concerned about when the trophies were introduced. I remember being told that the top studios wouldn't even be interested in the trophies because it would be hard to defend them and that it's something meant more for the second-tier studios to compete for. But time proved me right. When you have a studio full of active people that support each other in the voting, that's already a big advantage on its own and with the trophies involved it's basically Mission: Impossible for others to keep up.

So if there's any interest on the devs part to make the contest more open like it was before, I would suggest to get rid of the visibility boost that the trophies provide. The extra notes, experience and rewards for additional films are enough of a bonus/advantage. Just decrease the penalty as well so that the film trophies could remain to be valuable items without them killing all the competition in the BBAs.
  • mel25, Eileendover and CaitlinCumgusher like this

#4 CaptC

CaptC

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,029 posts
  • LocationTexas, USA
  • World:UK1
  • Character:CaptChrissy
  • Studio:Abusement Park
Reputation: 791

Posted 04 September 2017 - 12:35 PM

On Nutaku, a couple of studios (mine included) are trying to hold two of the movie trophies simultaneously. One of them succeeded for an entire week. (not mine)

 

They have 8 of the top 10 spots.

 

It is enough of an award that you get extra movies, with extra free skills. Being able to also dominate the BBAs is far too powerful.  

 

Either the trophies need to have a bigger penalty (you could add 10% to every trophy if you ask me) or movie exposure should cap out at what a free player can get by not missing any movies for the week, normally 21. or 210%.


  • Analis, Amberson, CaitlinCumgusher and 1 other like this
Retired from the game. Not from life.
In love with my Baby.

#5 CaptC

CaptC

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,029 posts
  • LocationTexas, USA
  • World:UK1
  • Character:CaptChrissy
  • Studio:Abusement Park
Reputation: 791

Posted 04 September 2017 - 13:05 PM

I play on the US version my studio mates were talking today why should we even try to keep them? They are a 20 percent penalty in studio fights, and always 3 studios that seem to always be on top of the BBA anyways so my question is whats the point of having them

 

To more directly answer this question, though:  In my studios, we strongly suggest that you select only movies with +skills.  Those who finish all their movies are picking up an average of roughly 4 extra free skills per day.

 

My characters spend between 330K and 400K per skill point.  So those 4 free skills are worth 1.2M to 1.6M notes of extra revenue, per day.  And across 30 members... it is very powerful.

 

And of course, there is the notes and experience from the extra movie missions themselves, as a little additional perk.


  • Yibbies likes this
Retired from the game. Not from life.
In love with my Baby.

#6 Yibbies

Yibbies

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 120 posts
  • LocationOhio
  • World:UK2
  • Character:Yibbies
  • Studio:Bros & Hoes
Reputation: 144

Posted 04 September 2017 - 23:53 PM

Player activity is crucial for my studio, without it we wouldn't have the Temple successes we do now... Personally I don't feel the film trophy takes away from the game at all, I think it only unites/binds players into staying active to compete and HOLD these trophies as long as possible... I understand from Amberson's perspective though, I too was once looking up to the "Big Stars" from far below.. I'm not sure how the devs would balance this out, though... and I'm up there with CaptC, always taking films with 4+ skill point rewards so I can maintain my strong position.



#7 Amberson

Amberson

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 258 posts
  • World:UK2
Reputation: 130

Posted 05 September 2017 - 02:03 AM

It's not about looking up to the "big stars". I'm not far below the big stars anymore and could have jumped to any of the Top 5 studios before....But the issue that I was talking about has nothing to do with this.

The BBAs weren't necessarily about big studios, strong stats and a high level. The support of a big and active studio always provided a certain degree of advantage, but even lower-level players from smaller studios still had some chance of winning or at least of finishing in the Top 10. If you were active enough during the week, you could secure the same maximum amount of exposure for your cover as the big stars and that made you more competitive. Now it's virtually impossible to reach the top positions for most players because of the trophies. There's a relatively small group of those that benefit from this new status quo such as you Yibbies (just ask yourself how many times have you won before the introduction of the trophies), but I'm describing the negative trophy effect on the game from the point of view of all the others

Suggestions how to resolve the issue and bring back more balance to the competition were already formulated by me and CaptC...

#8 Analis

Analis

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 273 posts
  • LocationBelgium
  • World:UK2
  • Character:Analis
  • Studio:Bros And Hoes
Reputation: 345

Posted 05 September 2017 - 05:28 AM

There's a relatively small group of those that benefit from this new status quo

I'm describing the negative trophy effect on the game from the point of view of all the others

 

There are at least two other studios in UK2 that have held film trophies more often, in a greater number or longer than Bros & Hoes have. Those are part of "all the others" as well. Why we're so predominant in the BBA rankings anyway is simply because as a team we're more active. I don't need to make more words dirty on that. Discussions on "merit" and "unfair advantage" have been held before and will always be viewed from people's own small perspectives. The "solution" is indeed as simple and elegant as CaptC suggested: get rid of the extra % with which those films are shown. Then everyone gets a fair chance at the BBAs.


  • mel25 likes this

Now that my char has been deleted...

I finally am just as relevant to UK2 as Maalena always has been.


#9 Amberson

Amberson

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 258 posts
  • World:UK2
Reputation: 130

Posted 05 September 2017 - 11:01 AM

I think I've said all of that before and even came up with the solution first. I acknowledged other factors that go into play (activity, mutual support of studio members in the voting and the actual look of the covers, many of which are indeed nice) and never claimed that it's only one studio that benefits from it.

It's an objective fact that the trophies had a profound effect on the BBAs and that the the dynamics of the competition have changed since the introduction of the trophies. In my opinion for the worst. I'm not the only one who thinks this, even though the voices of others are not expressed in this discussion. That's all I wanted to say and if the feedback reaches the developers, they can do whatever they want with it, including keeping things the way they are now. I will just concentrate on other things in the game then and let the players with greater exposure battle it out for the top spots.

Btw, I heard other suggestions how to balance the competition like getting rid of the "from your studio" notifications or to cancel the option to reroll covers using diamonds... I'm not promoting either of them. I wouldn't be against the inplemenatation of such measures, but I also don't mind if things stay the way we know them. So It's not like I want to radically change every little detail about the contest and voting process that potentially disdvantages me...

Edited by Amberson, 05 September 2017 - 11:29 AM.


#10 Analis

Analis

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 273 posts
  • LocationBelgium
  • World:UK2
  • Character:Analis
  • Studio:Bros And Hoes
Reputation: 345

Posted 05 September 2017 - 13:44 PM

There are usually more than ten covers from one studio in the Top 20 and the rest is from two or three other studios, depending on who had the trophies the week before. You don't really see someone outside of this circle there anymore.

 

I (...) never claimed that it's only one studio that benefits from it.

 

Neither did I, but we're both good enough in math to see what's going on.

And as UK2ers are a little more vocal on this forum, I think it doesn't hurt to call a cat a cat.

It's too powerful a "weapon" in the hands of a studio that can actually hold on to it.

The extra movie I feel is a well earned reward for the work we put in... well... everything.

But the added coverage we get is too hard for anyone to beat. That's just a given.

So basically I'm simply agreeing with you, Amby. Just from a different perspective.

 

All in all it would still be a great trophy for everyone...

if it wasn't possible to keep it for a prolonged period of time.


Edited by Analis, 05 September 2017 - 13:44 PM.

  • Amberson likes this

Now that my char has been deleted...

I finally am just as relevant to UK2 as Maalena always has been.


#11 CaptC

CaptC

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,029 posts
  • LocationTexas, USA
  • World:UK1
  • Character:CaptChrissy
  • Studio:Abusement Park
Reputation: 791

Posted 05 September 2017 - 16:47 PM

Just a couple of final thoughts, because I have heard suggestions that if the movie exposure is reduced, then the movie trophy is less valuable, so the penalty should be reduced. 

 

I think that argument is incorrect.

 

1) IMHO, every single trophy in the game is under-penalized, by at least 10%, even with no changes. Holding a trophy, ANY trophy, should hurt. And that is flat out not true for most of them.

 

2) A movie trophy is only four skills a day, right?  But those are BASIC skills. You get to double that, to 8 skills a day, in any upgraded studio. That's 56 skills a week. Two energy trophies, a combined 40 energy per day, can't get remotely close to that kind of production for any player over level 100. One can make a credible argument that movie trophies are under-costed, even without BBA advantages. 

 

When they first came out, I hated the idea of a trophy with 20% penalty. But the scales have been lifted from my eyes, and now I make no apologies for trying to keep two of them.  Movie trophies are simply bargains at the price. If the BBA advantages went away, that would not change my opinion. We would still try to hold two movie trophies for the skill production.


  • Analis likes this
Retired from the game. Not from life.
In love with my Baby.

#12 TaraBing

TaraBing

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 575 posts
  • LocationT3X4S
  • World:UK2
  • Character:TaraBing
  • Studio:EINTRACHT
Reputation: 310

Posted 05 September 2017 - 21:53 PM

...

 

2) A movie trophy is only four skills a day, right?  But those are BASIC skills. You get to double that, to 8 skills a day, in any upgraded studio. That's 56 skills a week. Two energy trophies, a combined 40 energy per day, can't get remotely close to that kind of production for any player over level 100. One can make a credible argument that movie trophies are under-costed, even without BBA advantages. 

 

When they first came out, I hated the idea of a trophy with 20% penalty. But the scales have been lifted from my eyes, and now I make no apologies for trying to keep two of them.  Movie trophies are simply bargains at the price. If the BBA advantages went away, that would not change my opinion. We would still try to hold two movie trophies for the skill production.

 

You lost me here, Capt - a movie trophy is worth 4 extra skills points a day? 

 

Not sure if that is what you meant, but I don't ALWAYS get skill points as a reward on a per movie basis, and even if I do, they don't always amount to four skill points.  They may not even average four.skill points per movie per day. (smug)

 

-TB (flower)

 

.



#13 Eileendover

Eileendover

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 338 posts
  • LocationUSA,MI
  • World:UK2
  • Character:Eileendover
  • Studio:Bukkakke Cinema
Reputation: 174

Posted 06 September 2017 - 02:34 AM

I'm ready to see them all turn to chocolate myself,lol. I think I was probably the person Amberson was speaking to about it. I'd like to see all visibility boosts removed to be honest. I LOL'd bigtime on US2. There was a cover someone titled "From your studio". I had to vote for it all 3 times it showed up.

I think friends and studio mates supporting one another is fine, if they are close enough to know what each other are doing. That's not so far fetched from voting for your own cover which can and does happen. But the 'from your studio' text I think was a terrible idea to begin with. Why should I vote for some junk thing someone put no effort into, with black text over dark background and really nothing appealing about it just because they are in the same studio?


  • TaraBing and Amberson like this

Just a casual now


#14 CaptC

CaptC

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,029 posts
  • LocationTexas, USA
  • World:UK1
  • Character:CaptChrissy
  • Studio:Abusement Park
Reputation: 791

Posted 06 September 2017 - 12:11 PM

You lost me here, Capt - a movie trophy is worth 4 extra skills points a day? 

 

Not sure if that is what you meant, but I don't ALWAYS get skill points as a reward on a per movie basis, and even if I do, they don't always amount to four skill points.  They may not even average four.skill points per movie per day. (smug)

 

-TB (flower)

 

.

 

Refreshing movies using diamonds is a cheap way to find skills. More movies means more cheap skills. You almost certainly will get skills in your first or second refresh. Less than 20 diamonds for multiple skill points? Pretty efficient.

 

Even if you are NOT refreshing movie choices, given how often 6 or 7 skill movies appear, you want that extra movie chance. You will certainly average less than 4 skills, but probably not that much less.

 

And again, the skills from movies are BASIC, and will at least double under studio benefits and skill refinements.


Retired from the game. Not from life.
In love with my Baby.

#15 Amberson

Amberson

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 258 posts
  • World:UK2
Reputation: 130

Posted 06 September 2017 - 13:07 PM

Neither did I, but we're both good enough in math to see what's going on.
And as UK2ers are a little more vocal on this forum, I think it doesn't hurt to call a cat a cat.


Yes, that quote was obviously a reference to Bros and Hoes. But don't forget the second part of sentence:

There are usually more than ten covers from one studio in the Top 20 and the rest is from two or three other studios, depending on who had the trophies the week before.


Based on the results from the previous week, these other studios could be Little Devils and The Dirty Thirty (the later I recently saw holding 2 film trophies at once).

The important thing is that there wasn't anyone outside the best studios with trophies. I remember TaraBing coming to the conclusion in another thread some time ago that there used to be about 3 people outside of the biggest studios in the Top 10 every week in the past.

I don't want to take away your hard-earned advantages. All I want is for the BBAs to be a bit more competitive. That's why I initially suggested that the movie trophy penalty could get reduced as a compensation for the loss of extra exposure.

The members of your crew in particular can be very successful even without the visibility boost. You can still keep your studio policy of actively supporting each other in the voting that I don't necessarily agree with but respect as a legitimate game strategy. That alone is a huge advantage. Coupled with the maximum amount of produced films, familiarity of some of the avatars and a nice looking cover, your studio members will still be able to win regularly. Just not every week and two times a month by the same person. ;) I'm glad that you agree with me on this issue. Hopefully, the devs will take notice and do something about it.
  • Analis likes this

#16 TaraBing

TaraBing

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 575 posts
  • LocationT3X4S
  • World:UK2
  • Character:TaraBing
  • Studio:EINTRACHT
Reputation: 310

Posted 06 September 2017 - 13:15 PM

Refreshing movies using diamonds is a cheap way to find skills. More movies means more cheap skills. You almost certainly will get skills in your first or second refresh. Less than 20 diamonds for multiple skill points? Pretty efficient.

 

Even if you are NOT refreshing movie covers, given how often 6 or 7 skill movies appear, you want that extra movie chance. You will certainly average less than 4 skills, but probably not that much less.

 

And again, the skills from movies are BASIC, and will at least double under studio benefits and skill refinements.

 

Ah... the power of refresh... but it does cost diamonds...

 

It certainly has its advantages in this game... including recycling movie covers on the last day of voting to manipulate the BBA vote which is on topic. The rich get richer.

 

There are some that might say, "BUT THAT'S NOT FAIR"... but let's be mindful, a solvent game is good for all including those that don't buy diamonds.  Buy on!   (grin)

 

-TB (flower)



#17 Amberson

Amberson

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 258 posts
  • World:UK2
Reputation: 130

Posted 06 September 2017 - 13:37 PM

If the "poor" have a chance of winning from time to time too, then go ahead and let people refresh all they want... But if it's going to work like with the conventions where you can't be first without diamond spending (apart from the "winning show" that's based on luck), then the devs might as well let the players to opt out of the competition altogether and be able to not submit any film at all. No reason to participate in something that's systematically skewed in such a way that most people can't win if they don't spend tons of diamonds... or if their studio doesn't possess a film trophy. ;) It's ok if some things in the game favor certain type of players, but there need to be other aspects too where the playing field is more balanced. BBA is the type of competition that should be open for everyone... at least to a certain degree.

#18 Eileendover

Eileendover

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 338 posts
  • LocationUSA,MI
  • World:UK2
  • Character:Eileendover
  • Studio:Bukkakke Cinema
Reputation: 174

Posted 06 September 2017 - 14:25 PM

IF they got rid of all forms of visibility boost, that would mean that someone who only does one film the week prior has an equal chance as everyone else.Some might cringe at that, but keep in mind there are plenty of players who have little interest in the film making or just don't have time for all that jazz. I'm in more than one studio where most of the people are in that category, The only time I see the from your studio message is when it's my own film. Even if you remind that the film making helps them level and strengthen their star.In the end, they just don't have the time. Then, to make it worse, they finally decide to give it a go and their film gets one vote...or none.

 

So, if the object is to make it fair, which I don't believe it is, then my suggestion is the following...

Remove visibility advantage for number of films made. Let the extra films from trophies be simply the natural advantage they already are of helping a player strengthen their star.

 

Remove from your studio notification

 

Remove rankings during the week. Instead, post the top 100 of the previous week so everyone can see how it wound up

 

Limit votes to 5 or 10 per player. If you have already voted max times, a ballot mission would just give you a message that you've voted and a thank you


Just a casual now


#19 CaptC

CaptC

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,029 posts
  • LocationTexas, USA
  • World:UK1
  • Character:CaptChrissy
  • Studio:Abusement Park
Reputation: 791

Posted 06 September 2017 - 15:17 PM

Before the movie trophies came along, the poor DID have a chance at winning through an excellent cover, that got people to vote for it because of it's humor or layout or the eroticism of the avatar.

 

Now the poor still have a chance at winning, but only if they are in the right studio - the one with the most movie trophies.

 

I would address that problem first.


  • Amberson, Eileendover and BigBadWolf like this
Retired from the game. Not from life.
In love with my Baby.

#20 Eileendover

Eileendover

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 338 posts
  • LocationUSA,MI
  • World:UK2
  • Character:Eileendover
  • Studio:Bukkakke Cinema
Reputation: 174

Posted 06 September 2017 - 16:44 PM

Incidentally Capt, we are close in standings on NU right now. I had to go find yours in your history because the game wouldn't load it. Also noticed the modest one film trophy. We can never seem to hold one through a doubleheader. I'm going to start checking my film shoot for an extra flick before I watch the replays to see if I can get one started before the bonus is gone.


Just a casual now





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users